Aliza Chasan is a Digital Content Producer for "60 Minutes" and CBSNews.com. She has previously written for outlets including PIX11 News, The New York Daily News, Inside Edition and DNAinfo. Aliza covers trending news, often focusing on crime and politics.
Tim Haugh, the retired general and ousted former head of both the National Security Agency and U.S. Cyber Command, warns that China has hacked into U.S. computer networks to an astonishing degree, targeting not just the U.S. military and industries, but also every American.
In the months since Mr. Trump's return to the White House, there have been resignations and firings of other people focused on America's cyber defense.
"Our overall capacity is getting smaller while we know China's continues to grow," Haugh told 60 Minutes. "There is still immense capability in the U.S. government, and now it will be up to the administration to be able to be able to use that and build partnerships with industry to be able to ensure that we're countering these threats."
Haugh rose to lead the National Security Agency and U.S. Cyber Command in 2024, just as the scope of China's hacking of utilities became clear in a place no one would have imagined: Littleton, Massachusetts.
It's a small town with around 10,000 residents, 30 miles northwest of Boston. It's not a major supplier to the federal government or to a military base, yet China targeted the town. The FBI visited in November 2023 to tell Nick Lawler, general manager of the town's electric and water utility, that China had breached his utility's computer network. Lawler said the feds told him he was one of 200.
China had been on some American networks for at least five years around the time of the FBI's visit to Lawler.
At the water treatment plant, Lawler showed how dangerous a hack could have been. If China had managed to get control over the utilities water system, they could have poisoned the water.
But China was caught before it had operational control. Secure from danger, and with Lawler’s permission, the federal investigators watched what China was doing and what they learned was part of an awakening for American security.
"If you are willing to go after a small water provider in Littleton, Massachusetts, what other target is off the list? So, from that perspective, this is a national threat. It's one that needs to be addressed," Haugh said. "But it's also one that every American should understand, because if they're willing to go after that small provider that doesn't have a national security connection, that means every target is on the list."
China denies hacking America's critical infrastructure. The White House recently told 60 Minutes it is working to "assess exposure and mitigate the damage."
No utility would talk to 60 Minutes about getting hacked by China except Littleton's Nick Lawler. He decided to speak out so Americans could understand the danger.
"I think initially we were surprised that China would target every American with these capabilities," Haugh said. "That goes against every norm of international law. That certainly goes against how the United States military would approach targeting in a crisis or a conflict. That the fact that they would go after basic services as part of their effort that they have identified as unrestricted warfare is unconscionable."
Other critical places believed to have been targeted by China over the years include New York City's Metropolitan Transportation Authority, 13 gas pipeline operators, the port of Houston and major phone companies.
China is causing those problems by exploiting vulnerabilities in network equipment. In Littleton, Massachusetts, China found a weakness in a network firewall. That's not unusual when software vulnerabilities go unpatched, or when out-of-date equipment is no longer supported with security updates. Once inside, China did not install malware, which could be a red flag. Instead, it stole login credentials and masqueraded as a legitimate employee.
"They are just gaining access to that system and then attempting to lay dormant. They're not spending more time collecting intelligence or taking other activities," Haugh said.
That access is there if they need it later, Haugh said.
Haugh said it's unclear how deep China's reach is into American systems, but believes that China is likely scanning millions of devices across the U.S. every day.
China is hacking critical infrastructure to try to ensure that it has an advantage in a crisis or a conflict, Haugh said.
"There's no advantage to be gained economically. There was no foreign intelligence-collection value. The only value would be for use in a crisis or a conflict," he said.
A hack in Littleton could distract the U.S., Haugh said.
"If we're involved in something in the Indo-Pacific that is becoming a challenge between the United States and China, the more that China could get us to focus at home means now our resources are focused in the homeland," he said.
Sen. Mike Rounds, a Republican from South Dakota and chair of the Armed Services Cybersecurity Subcommittee, said he believes China intends to try to deter the U.S. from engaging in a potential fight by using its cyber program to disrupt key American industries.
"All it takes is a blip on the financial markets to delay certain trades by just milliseconds, to put the market into an entirely different attitude about the security and the soundness of being able to make those transactions happen," he said.
China, he said, could threaten chaos on Wall Street to deter the United States.
"Those are areas that they would love to [access] just so that when the time comes, in my opinion, they can look at it and simply say, 'We know where you're at. Don't mess with us. We're capable of causing real problems for you long term,'" Rounds said.
While China continues accessing American systems, Haugh noted that the U.S. is "definitely good" at keeping adversaries out of networks but that the scale is a challenge.
"It is much more consuming to try to get somebody out of a network than to deny them access, which is why it's so critically important that we get the basics right in our critical infrastructure and in these substantive networks so that we aren't expending more resources to try to root them out," Haugh said.
Haugh was fired in April after far-right activist Laura Loomer met with President Trump. Online she accused Haugh of disloyalty -- pointing to his appointment by President Biden as evidence -- and said he had been "...referred for firing." Haugh, in his first television interview since retirement, said he was "absolutely not" disloyal.
Rounds called Haugh's termination "a loss for our nation."
"We do not have enough of these types of leaders, and a loss of any one of them without strong justification is disappointing," Rounds said.
"The National Security Agency and U.S. Cyber Command are consequential organizations. The second I was no longer the leader, focus shifts to them," Haugh said. "They have consequential missions to do and for my family, it shifts to: 'How do we serve in different ways through education partnering with innovators working with industry continue advance many these issues.'"
Today, Haugh is advancing these issues, teaching at Yale and consulting -- sidelined in government as China expands its aggressive hacking, spying and theft of intellectual property.
He shared what he believes is at stake if the U.S. does not dominate in this space.
"First, I'm always confident in our nation. But if we don't dominate in this space, China gains advantage with the ability to continue stealing intellectual property which impacts our economy," Haugh said. "They could gain increased intelligence collection which would help them every day also in crisis conflict; they could preposition critical networks both United States allies partners give them advantage crisis. We can't let that happen."