Two south-westerners shared a love of boats, but how would they fare on tuition fees and NHS funding?
Voting record In 2024, voted for Starmer, considering it essential. Liked Gordon Brown. Sometimes didn't vote
Amuse bouche Lived in Australia as a teen and got into bottle diving - searching for objects made by 1700s settlers and convicts. Sold his collection for $28,000 and had bought a home by the age of 18
Occupation Company director
Voting record Historically, always Tory. Spoiled his ballot paper in 2024; no one was worthy of his vote
Amuse bouche Has dinghy-sailed since he was five. Boats are his hobby, his passion and his work
Grant He had a Helly Hansen jacket on, which is a kind of uniform if you're into boats. He was immediately likable, not because of his clothes, but because he opened up straight away.
Peter I'm not the most open person, but I went into this thinking, if you're going to get something out of it, tell people your opinions. Grant said some things that I think were pretty bold to say to someone you'd never met before. He's a warm, intelligent man.
Grant We had a chat about university. My stance was it should be accessible. Student loans are a psychological barrier to people who might come from different circumstances. If you're in a household where there's a lot of negative talk and it's all a bit sad, if there are fees as well and both Mum and Dad are tight on money, you won't do it. Someone very clever, their life could be affected by that. I think any barrier to it is hugely negative. For every bright person who doesn't get where they need to go, we all lose.
Peter My view is, why do we want to send so many people to university? The fact they're coming out and not getting well-paid jobs tells me the product is wrong; universities have got bloated. The chancellors and vice-chancellors on their massive salaries - it's outrageous. They're leading failing organisations because they're not putting out people that employers want to employ. They're teaching them the wrong attitudes; they're cosseting them; they're not teaching them the right skills of getting on with people in order to work with them. We need to reduce numbers: we can't afford it; the students can't afford it; and society doesn't need it.
Grant Just give them a break. Make it free. Make it simple. Remove barriers.
Peter If you want to fund student education, it has to be through loans, and it's still a cheap loan.
Grant The NHS is a machine, staffed by the most gorgeous people that have ever been created. It's a miraculous thing. It's a levelling device. Doesn't matter who you are, it's there. It's partially broken, because it's exhausted. Everyone can see that.
Peter We both love the fact there is an NHS. We agreed that choice is a positive thing. I take an economic view - everyone who decides to go and spend whatever on a hip or knee replacement, that's one more operation the NHS doesn't have to do.
Grant Peter was dead against them throwing more money at it and, gosh, I agree with him. The malaise comes from a sick society, not a broken machine.
Peter It's the accountants that have messed it up. All these middle managers are protecting their budgets.
Grant I know how destructive it is, going on the dole. In Australia they call you a dole-bludger. It's psychologically bad for you to have your power removed, but it's equally bad for you if you don't have the tools or the system to further yourself. I don't have a problem if the benefits system is abused - everything gets abused, doesn't it?
Peter We need a welfare state. We want a society where people are protected, but we want to encourage people to work. Occasionally, we discourage people from working by making it hard for them to move from welfare to work and from work back to welfare.
Grant Peter has invited me to go to his industrial estate - I already know a spear fisher there.
Peter I liked this guy. If you put two people in a room who both like boats, that's bound to happen.